unseenguy
04-01 01:48 AM
Why don't you guys go to some 'INDIAN_POLITICAL_VOICE.ORG' forum?
This is immigration form and people from all over the world are the members.
Don't spam them.
Moderators, please delete this thread.
Has anyone asked you to read this? You clicked on the link yourself. If you are not interested in this thread, why dont you read something else instead of giving a hollow suggestion.
This is immigration form and people from all over the world are the members.
Don't spam them.
Moderators, please delete this thread.
Has anyone asked you to read this? You clicked on the link yourself. If you are not interested in this thread, why dont you read something else instead of giving a hollow suggestion.
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GooblyWoobly
07-25 03:52 AM
VDLRAO - You brought lot of valid points which supported by authentic statistics. But surprisingly Ron�s comment about the Aug bulletin is totally vague. You can throw the numbers to prove your claim but I don�t think Ron really has any such numerical explanation for his statement.
With all due respect, I beg to differ from Ron (probably for the first time).
Lawyers are what they are, lawyers. They won't be able to crunch numbers as well as folks in this group. The problem was, previously there wasn't much data to crunch. With that available, I'd take folks like Ron/Oh's comments and predictions with a pinch of salt, and concentrate on vdlrao's predictions.
Sometimes, numbers won't allow us to predict correctly, as USCIS also has limited ability to crunch numbers properly. However, at those times, all the bets are off.
With all due respect, I beg to differ from Ron (probably for the first time).
Lawyers are what they are, lawyers. They won't be able to crunch numbers as well as folks in this group. The problem was, previously there wasn't much data to crunch. With that available, I'd take folks like Ron/Oh's comments and predictions with a pinch of salt, and concentrate on vdlrao's predictions.
Sometimes, numbers won't allow us to predict correctly, as USCIS also has limited ability to crunch numbers properly. However, at those times, all the bets are off.
Munna Bhai
02-15 11:49 AM
Bestia,
First thanks 4 your advice. We'll send 2 separate cheques, one 4 me and one 4 my husband.Is this what U meant when suggesting 2 send "my own cheque"?
Why do U say I have good chance to have my AOS adjudecated? I really needed to hear that. Can U be more specific? Any idea/guess how long could it take to get GC?
About EAD. I 'm on H4, not working yet, that's why I am eager to get EAD. Do U think that there is no chance to get it within the 90 days? My husband is on H1B an he has I40 already approved. He won't leave his job that's for sure.
What "IV" stands for? Where can I found more about it?
Follow what Bestia says. What Bestia meant is that, you should send your personnal cheques so that you can track it. Yes, there are good chances of AOS approval because that is normal thing, unless you are out-of-status or if your employer is in black list. No one knows how long it will take to get a GC but do look for other options like EAD etc.
Hope this helps. Ask as many questions as you have, we will do our best to answer.
First thanks 4 your advice. We'll send 2 separate cheques, one 4 me and one 4 my husband.Is this what U meant when suggesting 2 send "my own cheque"?
Why do U say I have good chance to have my AOS adjudecated? I really needed to hear that. Can U be more specific? Any idea/guess how long could it take to get GC?
About EAD. I 'm on H4, not working yet, that's why I am eager to get EAD. Do U think that there is no chance to get it within the 90 days? My husband is on H1B an he has I40 already approved. He won't leave his job that's for sure.
What "IV" stands for? Where can I found more about it?
Follow what Bestia says. What Bestia meant is that, you should send your personnal cheques so that you can track it. Yes, there are good chances of AOS approval because that is normal thing, unless you are out-of-status or if your employer is in black list. No one knows how long it will take to get a GC but do look for other options like EAD etc.
Hope this helps. Ask as many questions as you have, we will do our best to answer.
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eastindia
01-15 12:07 PM
Is IV fighting for all of us on this?
People are just discussing and discussing but nobody is doing anything. Are any lawyers doing anything?
People are just discussing and discussing but nobody is doing anything. Are any lawyers doing anything?
more...
txgcfiler
09-03 09:30 AM
May soul rest in peace!
grupak
02-15 06:42 PM
I don't know what % of that group consists of H4 spouse of H1 folks. But i believe a good percentage of those applied through the TOEFL,GRE route.
Anyone knows of statistics for F1 visas per country? This might fill in some gaps here. My impression was some countries send more F1s than others.
Anyone knows of statistics for F1 visas per country? This might fill in some gaps here. My impression was some countries send more F1s than others.
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WeldonSprings
09-15 04:36 PM
Hello Sachug 22,
Where are you getting numbers for EB2 India for 2005 to be 10000, when total labor approved for 2005 were just 6133 (for all countries).
Thanks,
WeldonSprings.
2004 2000
2005 10000
2006 13000
2007(july) 5000
Here are my Estimate of pending EB2 India case for give years
<=2004 2000
2005 10000
2006 13000
2007(july) 5000
==============
Total 30000
==============
This number is very close to Ron Gocthers number prediction a few months back (minus sept approvals).
Collaboration on visa quota data/analysis - Page 6 - Immigration Information Discussion Forum (http://www.immigration-information.com/forums/general-immigration-questions/8419-collaboration-on-visa-quota-data-analysis-6.html)
Pending as of 15 July 2009 145000
EB2 50000
EB3 94000
EB2India (2.4/3.5 EB2) 35714
We can use the LCA number and come close these numbers as well
2005
EB2 India LCA for 2005 = RIR (3000) + PERM (60% of 7290) ~ 7400
Assuming 20% abandon applicant we get = 5900
1.2 dependent per applicant give ~ 13000 I-485 applicantions
Assuming 10% approved in 2008 and 10% rejected/abandon I-485 and 5% cross-charageability we get => pending 10000 pending I-485 application for 2005
2006
India PERM applications = 18000
EB2 India PERM applications (60%) = 10800
Assuming 20% abandon applicant we get = 8640
1.2 dependent per applicant give ~ 19000 I-485 applicantions
Assuming 10% approved in 2008 and 10% rejected/abandon I-485 and 10% cross-charageability we get => pending 13000 pending I-485 application for 2006
So if we see spillover of more than 30K the date will move beyond July 2007.
Where are you getting numbers for EB2 India for 2005 to be 10000, when total labor approved for 2005 were just 6133 (for all countries).
Thanks,
WeldonSprings.
2004 2000
2005 10000
2006 13000
2007(july) 5000
Here are my Estimate of pending EB2 India case for give years
<=2004 2000
2005 10000
2006 13000
2007(july) 5000
==============
Total 30000
==============
This number is very close to Ron Gocthers number prediction a few months back (minus sept approvals).
Collaboration on visa quota data/analysis - Page 6 - Immigration Information Discussion Forum (http://www.immigration-information.com/forums/general-immigration-questions/8419-collaboration-on-visa-quota-data-analysis-6.html)
Pending as of 15 July 2009 145000
EB2 50000
EB3 94000
EB2India (2.4/3.5 EB2) 35714
We can use the LCA number and come close these numbers as well
2005
EB2 India LCA for 2005 = RIR (3000) + PERM (60% of 7290) ~ 7400
Assuming 20% abandon applicant we get = 5900
1.2 dependent per applicant give ~ 13000 I-485 applicantions
Assuming 10% approved in 2008 and 10% rejected/abandon I-485 and 5% cross-charageability we get => pending 10000 pending I-485 application for 2005
2006
India PERM applications = 18000
EB2 India PERM applications (60%) = 10800
Assuming 20% abandon applicant we get = 8640
1.2 dependent per applicant give ~ 19000 I-485 applicantions
Assuming 10% approved in 2008 and 10% rejected/abandon I-485 and 10% cross-charageability we get => pending 13000 pending I-485 application for 2006
So if we see spillover of more than 30K the date will move beyond July 2007.
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Hassan11
07-11 04:20 PM
Here is his email address: moyersonpbs@thirteen.org.
Plese send him stories about the VB fiasco and also all your stories about working in US and deciding to move to Canada because of immigration broken system. I am pretty sure, if he receives enough articles, he will do a program about this. Please email him as many stories as possible.
Good luck to all
Plese send him stories about the VB fiasco and also all your stories about working in US and deciding to move to Canada because of immigration broken system. I am pretty sure, if he receives enough articles, he will do a program about this. Please email him as many stories as possible.
Good luck to all
more...
sathweb
02-15 07:18 PM
Please stick to subject of this thread.
or
Please some one close this thread. Its already old news.
(Its going out of control)
or
Please some one close this thread. Its already old news.
(Its going out of control)
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hiralal
06-11 10:34 PM
your views are correct and analysis looks o.k. too the problem is even the genuine ones get flushed away ..survival of the fittest is not working now at all !!! say a person from worldwide comes in eb3 and say he is just a car mechanic (I know few from south korea who are in this situation) ..they get GC faster than Indian / Chinese EB2 / EB3 applicant (with 10 years experience and good bank balance)
and Karma means ..do your work / duty and don't worry about results ..we need that ..i.e SEVERAL SMALL Campaigns (since big is not possible now due to members leaving IV / getting dejected that nothing is happening etc etc
let us not analyze and discuss too much ..we talk a lot and hence the karma that we get is more talk from so called Experts ..lets do numerous small campaigns ..at the very least people will start coming back to IV plus new memberships
and Karma means ..do your work / duty and don't worry about results ..we need that ..i.e SEVERAL SMALL Campaigns (since big is not possible now due to members leaving IV / getting dejected that nothing is happening etc etc
let us not analyze and discuss too much ..we talk a lot and hence the karma that we get is more talk from so called Experts ..lets do numerous small campaigns ..at the very least people will start coming back to IV plus new memberships
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saimrathi
07-03 04:13 PM
You should hav also included Zoe's press release...
http://digg.com/politics/Rep_Lofgren_Issues_Statement_on_Updated_Visa_Bulle tin
This email has been sent to all major TV anchors...
Hi ,
This is not a regular mail.. I on behalf of many others need the support of honest media persons like you, else our faith in American media will be gone for good....
pl. read on...
Illegal action by USCIS causes $ 300 million loss in a single day to Legal & Skilled Immigrants ( Doctors, Engineers & Scientists ) not counting the hardships.
Skilled immigrants like Doctors, Engineers & Scientists have been paying all the taxes, following all the laws of the land and have been stuck in huge wait period of 3- 7 years to obtain green card.
On 13th of June 07, USCIS announced that all these people stuck for years can apply for the green card starting 2nd July 07. Everyone spent 2 weeks & $3000 per person at the minimum towards Attorney fees, medical tests & other unsalvageable direct costs prepared the application and started to send it to USCIS starting 2nd July 07.
In an unusual act of absolute disregard to the hardships and financial loss of these applicants, USCIS announced on the morning of 2nd July 07 that they will not accept any application for green card.
A COMPLETE REVERSAL OF THEIR EARLIER PLOICY ON THE VERY 1st DAY OF THE WINDOW ANNOUNCED BY THEMSELVES.
If nobody takes an action to support law abiding legal immigrants at this time, everyone talking about supporting the laws of the land on immigration issue needs to look into his / her own eyes in the mirror.
What we demand �. Talk to USCIS & encourage them to ATLEAST accept the applications sent by these innocent Skilled Immigrants so that they do not suffer at least the financial loss. USCIS can take their own time to award the green card at a later date
ARE WE ASKING FOR TOO MUCH ???????????????????
http://digg.com/politics/Rep_Lofgren_Issues_Statement_on_Updated_Visa_Bulle tin
This email has been sent to all major TV anchors...
Hi ,
This is not a regular mail.. I on behalf of many others need the support of honest media persons like you, else our faith in American media will be gone for good....
pl. read on...
Illegal action by USCIS causes $ 300 million loss in a single day to Legal & Skilled Immigrants ( Doctors, Engineers & Scientists ) not counting the hardships.
Skilled immigrants like Doctors, Engineers & Scientists have been paying all the taxes, following all the laws of the land and have been stuck in huge wait period of 3- 7 years to obtain green card.
On 13th of June 07, USCIS announced that all these people stuck for years can apply for the green card starting 2nd July 07. Everyone spent 2 weeks & $3000 per person at the minimum towards Attorney fees, medical tests & other unsalvageable direct costs prepared the application and started to send it to USCIS starting 2nd July 07.
In an unusual act of absolute disregard to the hardships and financial loss of these applicants, USCIS announced on the morning of 2nd July 07 that they will not accept any application for green card.
A COMPLETE REVERSAL OF THEIR EARLIER PLOICY ON THE VERY 1st DAY OF THE WINDOW ANNOUNCED BY THEMSELVES.
If nobody takes an action to support law abiding legal immigrants at this time, everyone talking about supporting the laws of the land on immigration issue needs to look into his / her own eyes in the mirror.
What we demand �. Talk to USCIS & encourage them to ATLEAST accept the applications sent by these innocent Skilled Immigrants so that they do not suffer at least the financial loss. USCIS can take their own time to award the green card at a later date
ARE WE ASKING FOR TOO MUCH ???????????????????
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andy007
07-04 11:11 AM
Please post good reliable estimate of cost for applying with ALL possible break ups. I know the following only!
Cost of applying = application fee ($795 ??) + Lawyer fee + others (= medical + pictures + ...)
Also, which parts are lost if we have to re-apply!
Application Fee : Main Applicant : $375.00 (Application Fee) + $70.00 (Finger Print) + $50.00 (Fedex) + Medical Exam ($250.00) + Photos ($40.00) + Lawer Fee ($1500.00) and if we have any dependent same thing except Application fee and Lawer fess ($325.00 (Application Fee) + 500$ Lawer Fee)
All Togther : $2285.00 and calling here and there almost $2500.00 Per Person .... any other information please ask us........ thanks
Cost of applying = application fee ($795 ??) + Lawyer fee + others (= medical + pictures + ...)
Also, which parts are lost if we have to re-apply!
Application Fee : Main Applicant : $375.00 (Application Fee) + $70.00 (Finger Print) + $50.00 (Fedex) + Medical Exam ($250.00) + Photos ($40.00) + Lawer Fee ($1500.00) and if we have any dependent same thing except Application fee and Lawer fess ($325.00 (Application Fee) + 500$ Lawer Fee)
All Togther : $2285.00 and calling here and there almost $2500.00 Per Person .... any other information please ask us........ thanks
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JazzByTheBay
02-15 10:44 AM
You can pack your bags and leave. You are here by your own choice, and work within the legal framework of the country. You are free to leave when you please.
The slavery argument doesn't hold.
jazz
Modern Day Slavery in the 21st century
Any person who is restricted from making travel choices, employer choice, personal choices beneficial to himself and his family, just because his employer or the goverment is restricting him in some form to make monetary benefit for itself, is called a slave.
I have reached the critical mass in me to take this up on my own, any legal advice and moral support from you guys would be appreciated.
Thanks
The slavery argument doesn't hold.
jazz
Modern Day Slavery in the 21st century
Any person who is restricted from making travel choices, employer choice, personal choices beneficial to himself and his family, just because his employer or the goverment is restricting him in some form to make monetary benefit for itself, is called a slave.
I have reached the critical mass in me to take this up on my own, any legal advice and moral support from you guys would be appreciated.
Thanks
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unitednations
02-13 12:08 PM
I'm not sure that your numbers add up. There's no guarantee that anybody would receive a green card before their 90 or 180 day I-94 expires. Leaving the US and reentering to remain in status then runs the risk of putting immigration application in danger. In reality - PERM takes a couple of months to complete with advertising, interviewing, preparing documents and filing. The I-140/485 process takes another 6-8 months assuming that there are no RFEs and your case is processed in the faster service centers. This timescale only works for ROW applicants if they meet the EB-2 standard. This is not an easy standard to meet for many people who have worked at the same employer for a number of years.
On a separate note, CIS is supposed to meet a standard where most green card applications are evaluated within less than a year. They claim to meet this standard by quickly approving applications whose dates are current and then not including backlogged applications in their calculations. One more example of fuzzy math at the CIS...
This is how the law works:
To file I-485; one has to be admissable and in non immigrant status(not subject to J-1 requirements, no major medical issues, no serious criminal issue). If there is a labor and priority date is current then you go straight to 140/485.
many times a company may have already filed a labor for you before you even get into USA.
There is protection of 245k which basically gives a buffer of 6 months. Essentially; one can file a 485 if they were out of status; worked without authorization or were in non immigrant status within six months of filing 485.
So what this means is if your I-94 card expires in March 31, 2007; you have protection to file 485 until about September 30, 2007. There is more then enough time to be able to file the 485. The big hiccup happens if the priority date moves backwards and you can't file the 485.
Last year there were a few people who had posted on immigration.com who had their 485's retruned by uscis. They came on visitor visa and labor approved but filed in eb3. Their stupid lawyers didn't realize the dates were retrogressed or when they started the process there was word of law change and they figured that by the time labor cleared; the visa dates would be current.
I wouldn't fight this much; it is well established that people do this and it goes on. This is one of the reasons why I was pretty much against filing 485 without priority date being current. There would be a mass flood of people who would file. People who currently file in political asylum or get married to us citizens or people who have family sponsorship and are waiting visa dates would all flip over to employment base and would cause millions of applications with never ending retrogression. it would have pretty much been a disaster.
On a separate note, CIS is supposed to meet a standard where most green card applications are evaluated within less than a year. They claim to meet this standard by quickly approving applications whose dates are current and then not including backlogged applications in their calculations. One more example of fuzzy math at the CIS...
This is how the law works:
To file I-485; one has to be admissable and in non immigrant status(not subject to J-1 requirements, no major medical issues, no serious criminal issue). If there is a labor and priority date is current then you go straight to 140/485.
many times a company may have already filed a labor for you before you even get into USA.
There is protection of 245k which basically gives a buffer of 6 months. Essentially; one can file a 485 if they were out of status; worked without authorization or were in non immigrant status within six months of filing 485.
So what this means is if your I-94 card expires in March 31, 2007; you have protection to file 485 until about September 30, 2007. There is more then enough time to be able to file the 485. The big hiccup happens if the priority date moves backwards and you can't file the 485.
Last year there were a few people who had posted on immigration.com who had their 485's retruned by uscis. They came on visitor visa and labor approved but filed in eb3. Their stupid lawyers didn't realize the dates were retrogressed or when they started the process there was word of law change and they figured that by the time labor cleared; the visa dates would be current.
I wouldn't fight this much; it is well established that people do this and it goes on. This is one of the reasons why I was pretty much against filing 485 without priority date being current. There would be a mass flood of people who would file. People who currently file in political asylum or get married to us citizens or people who have family sponsorship and are waiting visa dates would all flip over to employment base and would cause millions of applications with never ending retrogression. it would have pretty much been a disaster.
more...
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matreen
02-12 11:17 PM
Yes, instead of living in dark lets do something about it....enough is enough.
M
M
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Wendyzhu77
07-30 11:22 AM
Apparently this guy has and aganda and is purposefully twisting the fact to facilite his own benefits. With the consulate interview list out, it's absurb to suggest CP can in anyway use even "moderate" number of visa numbers. Also, considering the fact that uscis must approve 140k EB applications each year, it is obvious they must have the capability to process at least 10k each month, or , 20k for two months. There is absolutely no reason why uscis can not use at least 20k visa numbers in the following 2 months from AOS cases.
This Ron Gotcher guy does not seem to get it.... he has an agenda, I dont buy his logic. It is unlikely that ~ 50 cases at consular posts are enough motivation to move dates forward by two years.
It took roughly one year for EB2-I dates to advance beyond April04 from the time it first got to April 04.
We know 2005 is a lean year.
It is likely that it will take almost a year before EB2-I dates advance beyond June06.
Those with PD < June06 that do not get a GC by Sep08 can expect to get it by Sep 09. Until then we will see some short term swings between 2003 and 2006.
This Ron Gotcher guy does not seem to get it.... he has an agenda, I dont buy his logic. It is unlikely that ~ 50 cases at consular posts are enough motivation to move dates forward by two years.
It took roughly one year for EB2-I dates to advance beyond April04 from the time it first got to April 04.
We know 2005 is a lean year.
It is likely that it will take almost a year before EB2-I dates advance beyond June06.
Those with PD < June06 that do not get a GC by Sep08 can expect to get it by Sep 09. Until then we will see some short term swings between 2003 and 2006.
more...
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lc1978
01-13 02:23 PM
Long 19 page memo - but loud and clear for many scenarios -
http://www.uscis.gov/USCIS/Laws/Memoranda/2010/H1B%20Employer-Employee%20Memo010810.pdf
This memo is an eye opener especially for folks on consulting company assignments and those who are self-sponsored or who want to do their own business. Finding a new H1 sponsor would be extremely difficult as well (AC21 folks beware).
Now getting a new H1 or a transfer or a renewal, may be subject to very stringent scrutiny.
This memo has the potential to throw a lot of small boutique Consulting companies out of business and along with it many of their employees - whether they use H1 or not.
Wish the best for all affected folks.
Pray and hope the GC dream is realized faster for all.
Best Wishes
Regards
http://www.uscis.gov/USCIS/Laws/Memoranda/2010/H1B%20Employer-Employee%20Memo010810.pdf
This memo is an eye opener especially for folks on consulting company assignments and those who are self-sponsored or who want to do their own business. Finding a new H1 sponsor would be extremely difficult as well (AC21 folks beware).
Now getting a new H1 or a transfer or a renewal, may be subject to very stringent scrutiny.
This memo has the potential to throw a lot of small boutique Consulting companies out of business and along with it many of their employees - whether they use H1 or not.
Wish the best for all affected folks.
Pray and hope the GC dream is realized faster for all.
Best Wishes
Regards
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pa_arora
07-26 04:28 PM
meekdesi, my friend... I also grew up in Delhi and in the same places what u listed...dont ask for what ur country did for u ...tell me what u did for ur country?? I am pretty sure u don't have an answer and if u do ur making false assertions.
u know the problem with u ...u just think who will cleanup the house, the other person living can clean it. But that not the way it works...so show what u did before u demand.
u know the problem with u ...u just think who will cleanup the house, the other person living can clean it. But that not the way it works...so show what u did before u demand.
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panini
05-11 04:49 PM
Mind you the civil war in SL is against the LTTE, not the Tamils.
Correct! And it is not even a "Civil War". It is really a war ti erradicate terrorism from Sri Lankan soil. The term Civil War refers to a war between people in a country. The SL government is not waging a war against it's Tamil citizens but against a terrorist group.
Correct! And it is not even a "Civil War". It is really a war ti erradicate terrorism from Sri Lankan soil. The term Civil War refers to a war between people in a country. The SL government is not waging a war against it's Tamil citizens but against a terrorist group.
bayarea07
07-27 07:28 PM
Kushal,
Still waiting for your reply and your tax returns for previous years as you promised :-)
Since you are in bay area I will reply to you. I don't need to see his tax papers, as long I can see mine. IF you are happy with your thinking so be it...stay where you are...and you can google froogle whatever you want. You will find your like minded people there too.
I don't need to share my thoughts here...its like talking to anti-immigrants on legal/illegal immigration.
Peace OUT!!
Still waiting for your reply and your tax returns for previous years as you promised :-)
Since you are in bay area I will reply to you. I don't need to see his tax papers, as long I can see mine. IF you are happy with your thinking so be it...stay where you are...and you can google froogle whatever you want. You will find your like minded people there too.
I don't need to share my thoughts here...its like talking to anti-immigrants on legal/illegal immigration.
Peace OUT!!
bayarea07
07-22 02:54 PM
I would agree with you on this for normal people but not for amway folks, when you are continously being pushed to being on the verge of harrasment then i would think that every human being would behave the way as we do
Moreover they are the ones who push people to behave that way.
Respect is all give and take.
I have been following this thread for last couple of days and I feel I need to make few points. I remember when this amway/qucikstar thing started several of my close friends got entangled and tried to involve me. However, every time I bailed myself out by clearly mentioning to them "Right now, making lot of money is not in my top priorities. I want to focus on my carrier." Fortunately, I was able to fend off the proposals and clearly make my point.
In this thread, several of you are mentioning to ridicule, diminish, embarrass, and even socially out casting an amway/quickstar member. I feel its going a little bit too far. If you dont like to be in the amway/quickstar business stay clear of it, nobody will be able to force you in it. Setting up anti-amway websites, sharing names of the "bugging" amway members, distributing their phone numbers, and destroying their social reputation is harming the person personally, not the amway/quickstar business. We all know by now the amway/quickstar is a scam, majority of its signed members end up losing valuable time and money. How do you feel if some of your mentioned action emotionally push a distressed person off the cliff. Think about it a bit !!!
Moreover they are the ones who push people to behave that way.
Respect is all give and take.
I have been following this thread for last couple of days and I feel I need to make few points. I remember when this amway/qucikstar thing started several of my close friends got entangled and tried to involve me. However, every time I bailed myself out by clearly mentioning to them "Right now, making lot of money is not in my top priorities. I want to focus on my carrier." Fortunately, I was able to fend off the proposals and clearly make my point.
In this thread, several of you are mentioning to ridicule, diminish, embarrass, and even socially out casting an amway/quickstar member. I feel its going a little bit too far. If you dont like to be in the amway/quickstar business stay clear of it, nobody will be able to force you in it. Setting up anti-amway websites, sharing names of the "bugging" amway members, distributing their phone numbers, and destroying their social reputation is harming the person personally, not the amway/quickstar business. We all know by now the amway/quickstar is a scam, majority of its signed members end up losing valuable time and money. How do you feel if some of your mentioned action emotionally push a distressed person off the cliff. Think about it a bit !!!
