caydee
01-15 09:44 PM
The topic is USCIS's memo. Why are fellow IVans discussing H1 versus L1 versus outsourcing. For some reason, a few people here think that all issues are caused by either big Indian companies or small desi companies. Some believe that getting rid of the consulting business model will accelerate their PR application. Wonder what is being achieved from these "lively" debates other than feeding the other side with enough ammo to decimate all of us. I still believe that our focus is immigration reform. Macaca is right about "self inflicted wound".
Hope folks here watch this masterpiece on Youtube and learn from wild buffaloes - YouTube - Battle at Kruger (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU8DDYz68kM)
Nature will never cease to amaze us.
Peace!
Hope folks here watch this masterpiece on Youtube and learn from wild buffaloes - YouTube - Battle at Kruger (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU8DDYz68kM)
Nature will never cease to amaze us.
Peace!
wallpaper the Planking Craze?
JunRN
05-29 11:47 AM
3.2K visas for EB2I includes all applicants. So regardless of what type of processing, the last person to get his GC is 19 years from now, correct?
Yeah, but your 60k only includes AOS, not CP, right?
Yeah, but your 60k only includes AOS, not CP, right?
gimmeacard
07-22 06:17 PM
lately i have been observing the # of folks is reducing for Amway/Q, maybe newbies are not coming to the country in chunks now.
offtopic ques :
i am surprised i havent said anything negative about anyone yet i see RED DOTS, whats the purpose of having a rating stated with, did u find the post useful?
maybe u didnt, but then why rate it negative? is this again few/limited desi behaviour or maybe some annoyed quiksters doing that
offtopic ques :
i am surprised i havent said anything negative about anyone yet i see RED DOTS, whats the purpose of having a rating stated with, did u find the post useful?
maybe u didnt, but then why rate it negative? is this again few/limited desi behaviour or maybe some annoyed quiksters doing that
2011 Planking Prank
rockstart
07-08 12:52 PM
How should one answer Immigration Officer at POE "Are you working for your GC sponsoring Employer?" in case one has used AC-21 and moved to a same or similar job position in other company.
more...
spicy_guy
01-24 03:12 PM
I have been a silent reader of Murthy forum, and I have been observing JoeF's posts. He is NOT an anti-immigrant. He is just educating people about the law. That's what I see from his posts. He is knowledgeable enough to answer the questions of the forum readers.
Maybe his posts sound rude for the wounded and needy. But I think he isn't taking anything bad about immigration or prospective immigrants.
Anyways, thats not the topic of this thread and don't mean to detract.
Maybe his posts sound rude for the wounded and needy. But I think he isn't taking anything bad about immigration or prospective immigrants.
Anyways, thats not the topic of this thread and don't mean to detract.
Edison99
09-24 11:54 AM
when there were no dates in VISA BULLETIN for EB2 and EB3, how the people filed 485 in the year 2008 and 2009 under EB3 and EB2 as well?
Good Question though!
Good Question though!
more...
GCFROMOHIO
03-26 06:18 PM
Hi All,
I currently have an EB3 March 2003 priority date labor I140 approved with my company. Recently, I wanted to move to consulting, sothat I can get my GC converted to EB2 as the dates are only 2 months apart. I have asked my company if they are willing to take me as a contractor once I am out of the company and go to a consulting company. They said that it should be fine, but they said if GC is the only purpose, they can try to do something about converting my existing labor to EB2. It's a very big fortune 500 company and they do all their labors in EB3. My question is:
1. Can I re-apply another labor in EB2 for a position that qualifies in the same company and can port the existing EB3 priority date? Has anyone done this in the past?
2. Can I use any prior priority date approved labor in the same company, even though my EB3 I140 is approved with the same company.
3. Can I move to consulting company and reapply in EB2 with existing priority date and work for the same company that has my current labor.
The company legal counsel said that they would come back to me with some answers this week, but I want to get second opinion from all of you in this regard. I have my Masters in 2000 and MBA in 2004 with 8 years experience and so EB2 qualification shouldn't be a problem
Any help will be greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
I currently have an EB3 March 2003 priority date labor I140 approved with my company. Recently, I wanted to move to consulting, sothat I can get my GC converted to EB2 as the dates are only 2 months apart. I have asked my company if they are willing to take me as a contractor once I am out of the company and go to a consulting company. They said that it should be fine, but they said if GC is the only purpose, they can try to do something about converting my existing labor to EB2. It's a very big fortune 500 company and they do all their labors in EB3. My question is:
1. Can I re-apply another labor in EB2 for a position that qualifies in the same company and can port the existing EB3 priority date? Has anyone done this in the past?
2. Can I use any prior priority date approved labor in the same company, even though my EB3 I140 is approved with the same company.
3. Can I move to consulting company and reapply in EB2 with existing priority date and work for the same company that has my current labor.
The company legal counsel said that they would come back to me with some answers this week, but I want to get second opinion from all of you in this regard. I have my Masters in 2000 and MBA in 2004 with 8 years experience and so EB2 qualification shouldn't be a problem
Any help will be greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
2010 Zohri planking in front of a
chanduv23
05-29 03:45 PM
Folks - here is the thing. lets work towards fixing our issues.
If people feel USCIS must know about EB1 fraud or other stuff, there are enough people to write to them and if people want to write to USCIS - no one stops them from writing.
As such, so many people write about different things - people write about eb2 - people write about consulting companies etc... So if you wish to do what you want to do you can do it.
Remember - when you make a claim that someone is falsfying or breaking law you must present facts and explain properly as to why you think it is not right and why you think you are affected by this.
Now when you do this - someone can definitely write why they think what YOU are doing is not right and why there are issues with your application.
IV focuses on advocacy - together we resolve our issues. Things like employer not paying salary, employer benching, cheating etc... are things IV members must collectively deal with andhelp themselves.
Things like wrongful denials when used AC21, poor customer service etc... are ones IV members can collectively resolve and IV helps
Things like organizing grassroots efforts, job networking, help networks, lobbying etc... are the kind of things IV stands for.
If people feel USCIS must know about EB1 fraud or other stuff, there are enough people to write to them and if people want to write to USCIS - no one stops them from writing.
As such, so many people write about different things - people write about eb2 - people write about consulting companies etc... So if you wish to do what you want to do you can do it.
Remember - when you make a claim that someone is falsfying or breaking law you must present facts and explain properly as to why you think it is not right and why you think you are affected by this.
Now when you do this - someone can definitely write why they think what YOU are doing is not right and why there are issues with your application.
IV focuses on advocacy - together we resolve our issues. Things like employer not paying salary, employer benching, cheating etc... are things IV members must collectively deal with andhelp themselves.
Things like wrongful denials when used AC21, poor customer service etc... are ones IV members can collectively resolve and IV helps
Things like organizing grassroots efforts, job networking, help networks, lobbying etc... are the kind of things IV stands for.
more...
yabadaba
07-04 09:51 AM
Kitty Eisele
keisele@npr.org
two approaches to media coverage
macaca is trying to make the human element point.
others are trying make use of the scandal type issue (the way i have written it)
the main thing is to encourage the reporters to touch on this story. it does not matter what sort of publicity we get.... we need to keep pursuing this with all the energy we can muster.
keisele@npr.org
two approaches to media coverage
macaca is trying to make the human element point.
others are trying make use of the scandal type issue (the way i have written it)
the main thing is to encourage the reporters to touch on this story. it does not matter what sort of publicity we get.... we need to keep pursuing this with all the energy we can muster.
hair What is This Planking Craze?
insbaby
02-13 02:02 AM
I think the entire community should align behind Administrative reforms with a laser-focus. This initiative is a digression.
IV has had it's own share of success with it's approach. No other methods have succeeded so far .
Also, from my little IV volunteering experience I can vouch that our community has very high inertia and is difficult to organize. people are afraid to send letters to president...good luck in getting them to sue USCIS.
community does not have the bandwidth to take multiple initiatives.
I see no wisdom in doing this. USCIS/DOS can screw us worse , if they wish to . This is not being timid but being pragmatic...anyway the bravado talk also needs to be followed up by multiple clear paths to victory.
Boss, you will realize the importance when you are told that you are NOT ELIGIBLE for a driver license in this country and they will ask you to get a cab to work or WALK to work.
IV has had it's own share of success with it's approach. No other methods have succeeded so far .
Also, from my little IV volunteering experience I can vouch that our community has very high inertia and is difficult to organize. people are afraid to send letters to president...good luck in getting them to sue USCIS.
community does not have the bandwidth to take multiple initiatives.
I see no wisdom in doing this. USCIS/DOS can screw us worse , if they wish to . This is not being timid but being pragmatic...anyway the bravado talk also needs to be followed up by multiple clear paths to victory.
Boss, you will realize the importance when you are told that you are NOT ELIGIBLE for a driver license in this country and they will ask you to get a cab to work or WALK to work.
more...
bayarea07
07-21 10:40 PM
Another thing i found out about these amway guys is they lie about
credentials of their upsells and about themselves just to show them as superior and successful in life, i know few friends of mine who though a big failure in the technical job they do (one has been kicked out of the job because he did not knew his work) but he keeps posting patents on free internet sites and writes technical blogs (most of them copied from different internet sites) just to show his downlines how bigshot he is.
Complete wastage of time and money, do it if you want to alienate all your existing friends and family and if you did decide to join , be ready to be brainwashed by the new friends and group that you are going to have by making everybody else beside that group as a loser.
By the Way when they introduce you to their boss ,their boss usually shows you a real check of 8-9K, is it usually a fake check given to them as part of the kit
credentials of their upsells and about themselves just to show them as superior and successful in life, i know few friends of mine who though a big failure in the technical job they do (one has been kicked out of the job because he did not knew his work) but he keeps posting patents on free internet sites and writes technical blogs (most of them copied from different internet sites) just to show his downlines how bigshot he is.
Complete wastage of time and money, do it if you want to alienate all your existing friends and family and if you did decide to join , be ready to be brainwashed by the new friends and group that you are going to have by making everybody else beside that group as a loser.
By the Way when they introduce you to their boss ,their boss usually shows you a real check of 8-9K, is it usually a fake check given to them as part of the kit
hot BECAUSE OF PLANKING CRAZE
soljabhai
12-14 04:39 PM
Following text is from IV's about page
America has had per-country ceilings since decades on family based and diversity-lottery based visas and it makes sense to have uniform distribution of visas to countries where the basis for immigration is family relationship and family reunification. However, in the employment based immigration system, the petitioner is the employer who wants the retain the employee and facilitate employee retention based on skills, knowledge, education and talent. Employability has nothing to do country of birth. We do not allow employers to discriminate hiring based on their nationality or country of origin. Therefore, the employment-based immigration, which is a derivative benefit of employment, should also be free from rationing based on nationality or country of birth.
In other words IV itself holds the position challenging the merit of "Nationality Origin" in "Employment Based Green Cards"
America has had per-country ceilings since decades on family based and diversity-lottery based visas and it makes sense to have uniform distribution of visas to countries where the basis for immigration is family relationship and family reunification. However, in the employment based immigration system, the petitioner is the employer who wants the retain the employee and facilitate employee retention based on skills, knowledge, education and talent. Employability has nothing to do country of birth. We do not allow employers to discriminate hiring based on their nationality or country of origin. Therefore, the employment-based immigration, which is a derivative benefit of employment, should also be free from rationing based on nationality or country of birth.
In other words IV itself holds the position challenging the merit of "Nationality Origin" in "Employment Based Green Cards"
more...
house DJ Mr. Rogers: Planking While
bestia
02-13 11:44 PM
What rights did the Natives have in the 18th and 19th centuries when Europeans invaded their lands, and massacred most of them? Did they respectfully ask the Natives if they could immigrate? No? They walked in as if they owned this land. As a Canadian, I'm ashamed to say that this happened in my country too.
....
That's an old story. The answer is: "if someone commits a crime, it doesn't give you right to commit crime".
Why not go back and say "Well, Homo Sapiens themselves 150,000 years ago migrated to Europe from Africa and exterminated native Neanderthals. So why don't we just go and exterminate Europeans today and take Europe?"
If it wouldn't be Europeans, there wouldn't be technological advanced United States and we wouldn't want immigrate here. We are not migrating to Kongo or Sierra Leone, don't we?
....
That's an old story. The answer is: "if someone commits a crime, it doesn't give you right to commit crime".
Why not go back and say "Well, Homo Sapiens themselves 150,000 years ago migrated to Europe from Africa and exterminated native Neanderthals. So why don't we just go and exterminate Europeans today and take Europe?"
If it wouldn't be Europeans, there wouldn't be technological advanced United States and we wouldn't want immigrate here. We are not migrating to Kongo or Sierra Leone, don't we?
tattoo Jump On Planking Craze
bayarea07
07-22 03:41 PM
Good one
This is my reply to these Amway leeches: Whenever I am asked What I do for living/where do I work.
My Reply (with straight face): I work for a Law firm. We specialize in frauds and scams law suits. Quick as a wink they disappear after hearing this. This has worked so far.:D
This is my reply to these Amway leeches: Whenever I am asked What I do for living/where do I work.
My Reply (with straight face): I work for a Law firm. We specialize in frauds and scams law suits. Quick as a wink they disappear after hearing this. This has worked so far.:D
more...
pictures Jump On Planking Craze
richana
07-30 12:02 PM
Why are the idiots in here hating on me, sending me pm's and giving me red, it was con(sensual)....lol. You can hate on me but I got it and yes the wine was a very nice 2004 cask cab sauv
dresses The quot;plankingquot; craze is
GCplease
10-09 02:35 PM
I mailed the following message to Senators, Representatives, President's Office, various News organizations sometime in April this year. No one bought it except for some standard reply from the Senator's Offices. At this time, when they have bigger issues, we would be at the bottom of the pile -
"The Economy is inching towards Recession. The President’s Economic stimulus plan will take at least 6 months to bring in the questionable benefits of the Plan. The Fed is aggressively cutting interest rates to turn around the economy. The questionable benefits of these will take a minimum of 6 months to bear fruit.
Nothing can prevent the economy from going into Recession if the Housing crisis is not fixed, neither the Economic stimulus nor the Feds cutting the interest rates.
Now, how do we fix this Housing Crisis. We need to figure out a way to add home buyers. Now, where are the buyers, you may ask. There is surprisingly an easy answer – Employment based Legal Immigrants. These are immigrants who came into this country legally, pay their taxes and social security and who apply for their Employment based Green Cards, the legal way.
There is a huge backlog of employment based legal immigrants who are waiting to get their Employment based permanent residency (Green card). There are approximately 750,000 applicants in line. This backlog has been caused by the annual quota of employment based green cards whose annual limit (140,000) was set decades ago.
These are the immigrants who have already passed through two stages of immigration processes – the Labor Certification where it has been verified that no American talent has been available for the Job Descriptions these immigrants were hired for and The I-140 where the employer is verified to be a genuine employer with financial ability to pay for the immigrants so that they don’t become a liability for the state. They are in the final stage of the Green Card process where this huge back log is.
On top of this, visas not used on a calendar year due to enough resources not available to process them, are wasted. Over the years, these un-used visas amount to around 160,000.
Increasing the annual quota of employment based Green cards from 140,000 to 300,000 would be ideal. Even Microsoft’s Bill Gates has supported this idea in his recent Congressional testimony on March 12, 2008. But that would require the act of Congress and the Senate and it needs to take its course. We need an immediate solution. Re-capturing the unused visas just needs some administrative fixes and this has been done in the past as recent as 2005.
Senator John Cornyn is working on an Amendment that would allow the Department of State and DHS to recapture unused employment based visas. Refer -
http://cornyn.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=ForPress.NewsReleases&ContentRecord_id=E3CA3FF5-802A-23AD-4A46-BA89FCCC0735
In this he states,
“This (recapture) is not an increase in employment-based numbers but rather, a direction for the agencies to use all the visa numbers that are available today”.
If these unused visas are captured and issued to the Employment based legal immigrants, who have stayed in the country for at least 6 years, we are adding a significant amount of home buyers to the economy.
These immigrants will eventually get their Green Cards in 2 to 4 years. Why not give it to them now so that it will be beneficial to the ailing economy.
The 160,000 un-used visas that are captured and the annual quota of 140,000 employment based Greencards for 2008 amounts to 300,000 green cards which amounts to approximately 150,000 families getting a green card.
Employment based legal immigrants (EB1, EB2 and EB3) who have stayed in the country for 6 years are economically well off and have excellent credit history. Once they get a Green Card, they'll feel more secure and think about buying a home and settling down.
Of the 150,000 families, 25 % may already own a home. 25% may not have the intention of buying a home due to various reasons. Even if the remaining 50 % buy a home,75,000 homes will be taken off the market. This will act as the much needed catalyst and will ease the Housing crisis a little bit.
At a median price of 200,000 (this could be much higher as most of the Employment Based GC aspirants live in the metro areas where the price of houses are much higher), this is an addition of 15 Billion dollars into the economy. By this time, the President’s Economic stimulus plan and the Fed’s interest rate cut will come into effect and the Economy will be saved from going into a full blown recession. "
"The Economy is inching towards Recession. The President’s Economic stimulus plan will take at least 6 months to bring in the questionable benefits of the Plan. The Fed is aggressively cutting interest rates to turn around the economy. The questionable benefits of these will take a minimum of 6 months to bear fruit.
Nothing can prevent the economy from going into Recession if the Housing crisis is not fixed, neither the Economic stimulus nor the Feds cutting the interest rates.
Now, how do we fix this Housing Crisis. We need to figure out a way to add home buyers. Now, where are the buyers, you may ask. There is surprisingly an easy answer – Employment based Legal Immigrants. These are immigrants who came into this country legally, pay their taxes and social security and who apply for their Employment based Green Cards, the legal way.
There is a huge backlog of employment based legal immigrants who are waiting to get their Employment based permanent residency (Green card). There are approximately 750,000 applicants in line. This backlog has been caused by the annual quota of employment based green cards whose annual limit (140,000) was set decades ago.
These are the immigrants who have already passed through two stages of immigration processes – the Labor Certification where it has been verified that no American talent has been available for the Job Descriptions these immigrants were hired for and The I-140 where the employer is verified to be a genuine employer with financial ability to pay for the immigrants so that they don’t become a liability for the state. They are in the final stage of the Green Card process where this huge back log is.
On top of this, visas not used on a calendar year due to enough resources not available to process them, are wasted. Over the years, these un-used visas amount to around 160,000.
Increasing the annual quota of employment based Green cards from 140,000 to 300,000 would be ideal. Even Microsoft’s Bill Gates has supported this idea in his recent Congressional testimony on March 12, 2008. But that would require the act of Congress and the Senate and it needs to take its course. We need an immediate solution. Re-capturing the unused visas just needs some administrative fixes and this has been done in the past as recent as 2005.
Senator John Cornyn is working on an Amendment that would allow the Department of State and DHS to recapture unused employment based visas. Refer -
http://cornyn.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=ForPress.NewsReleases&ContentRecord_id=E3CA3FF5-802A-23AD-4A46-BA89FCCC0735
In this he states,
“This (recapture) is not an increase in employment-based numbers but rather, a direction for the agencies to use all the visa numbers that are available today”.
If these unused visas are captured and issued to the Employment based legal immigrants, who have stayed in the country for at least 6 years, we are adding a significant amount of home buyers to the economy.
These immigrants will eventually get their Green Cards in 2 to 4 years. Why not give it to them now so that it will be beneficial to the ailing economy.
The 160,000 un-used visas that are captured and the annual quota of 140,000 employment based Greencards for 2008 amounts to 300,000 green cards which amounts to approximately 150,000 families getting a green card.
Employment based legal immigrants (EB1, EB2 and EB3) who have stayed in the country for 6 years are economically well off and have excellent credit history. Once they get a Green Card, they'll feel more secure and think about buying a home and settling down.
Of the 150,000 families, 25 % may already own a home. 25% may not have the intention of buying a home due to various reasons. Even if the remaining 50 % buy a home,75,000 homes will be taken off the market. This will act as the much needed catalyst and will ease the Housing crisis a little bit.
At a median price of 200,000 (this could be much higher as most of the Employment Based GC aspirants live in the metro areas where the price of houses are much higher), this is an addition of 15 Billion dollars into the economy. By this time, the President’s Economic stimulus plan and the Fed’s interest rate cut will come into effect and the Economy will be saved from going into a full blown recession. "
more...
makeup planking craze.
MunnaBhai
06-28 04:56 PM
I don't think that they will APPROVE 40,000 appplications in a week. Well they were unable to do so in an year, how come in a week or two.
girlfriend This new world of planking
softcrowd
05-29 10:31 AM
So, based on this prediction - Eb2 may not even cross year 2004 by end of FY2010 quota...Is my understanding correct?
hairstyles wallpaper The planking craze
gc4me
02-13 01:11 PM
Any of you want to join with me with this drive? Let's form a group and sue the USCIS for misallocation of visa. If any one is interested, please PM me.
immigration-law.com posted country wise EB visa allocation for the year of 2005. For example, Nepal used only 70 EB3 visas. Whereas country limit is 7%. In that case how EB3 Nepal is retrogressed?
Can we sue USCIS? Let's discuss.
In that case, let's hire an attorney.
immigration-law.com posted country wise EB visa allocation for the year of 2005. For example, Nepal used only 70 EB3 visas. Whereas country limit is 7%. In that case how EB3 Nepal is retrogressed?
Can we sue USCIS? Let's discuss.
In that case, let's hire an attorney.
panini
05-18 07:59 PM
Illusions, Thanks Bro!!
Marphad, I have posted less than 20 posts in this forum and I have never posted anything anti-immigrant. The most number of posts I have ever posted was in this thread.
And that was because I saw some people posting misleading information about the Sri Lankan war and I wanted everyone to see at least what I consider to be the real situation. I can't help it if people have trouble listening to different opinions and different sides of the story but this is a public forum and I have the freedom to post what I feel as long as I don't cross the line.
In any case, I am too happy today to be wasting my time on petty stuff like these.
Hasta la vista Baby!!!! :D
Marphad, i didn't say that it's wrong or right, you implied he is anti immigrant, spreading rumors and writing un-necessary posts, i just failed to see how you concluded all that just by looking at his profile ? And point taken after you replied.
And isn't the content in his profile all default content (correct me if i'm wrong) when the tracker was introduced, even i had a changeability as US. And i'm not trying to defend him, but you seem to assume it's fake. And the way i see it, it is incomplete.
If one has a fake profile do you really think he will make it so obvious ? it would resemble more accurate data than the most obvious.
And i do know the profile carries on to a on-related immi thread, no doubts there, except it only makes sense looking and analyzing it when related to an immi issue, unless you are looking for something else.
Marphad, I have posted less than 20 posts in this forum and I have never posted anything anti-immigrant. The most number of posts I have ever posted was in this thread.
And that was because I saw some people posting misleading information about the Sri Lankan war and I wanted everyone to see at least what I consider to be the real situation. I can't help it if people have trouble listening to different opinions and different sides of the story but this is a public forum and I have the freedom to post what I feel as long as I don't cross the line.
In any case, I am too happy today to be wasting my time on petty stuff like these.
Hasta la vista Baby!!!! :D
Marphad, i didn't say that it's wrong or right, you implied he is anti immigrant, spreading rumors and writing un-necessary posts, i just failed to see how you concluded all that just by looking at his profile ? And point taken after you replied.
And isn't the content in his profile all default content (correct me if i'm wrong) when the tracker was introduced, even i had a changeability as US. And i'm not trying to defend him, but you seem to assume it's fake. And the way i see it, it is incomplete.
If one has a fake profile do you really think he will make it so obvious ? it would resemble more accurate data than the most obvious.
And i do know the profile carries on to a on-related immi thread, no doubts there, except it only makes sense looking and analyzing it when related to an immi issue, unless you are looking for something else.
sounakc
07-22 01:27 PM
I have been following this thread for last couple of days and I feel I need to make few points. I remember when this amway/qucikstar thing started several of my close friends got entangled and tried to involve me. However, every time I bailed myself out by clearly mentioning to them "Right now, making lot of money is not in my top priorities. I want to focus on my carrier." Fortunately, I was able to fend off the proposals and clearly make my point.
In this thread, several of you are mentioning to ridicule, diminish, embarrass, and even socially out casting an amway/quickstar member. I feel its going a little bit too far. If you dont like to be in the amway/quickstar business stay clear of it, nobody will be able to force you in it. Setting up anti-amway websites, sharing names of the "bugging" amway members, distributing their phone numbers, and destroying their social reputation is harming the person personally, not the amway/quickstar business. We all know by now the amway/quickstar is a scam, majority of its signed members end up losing valuable time and money. How do you feel if some of your mentioned action emotionally push a distressed person off the cliff. Think about it a bit !!!
In this thread, several of you are mentioning to ridicule, diminish, embarrass, and even socially out casting an amway/quickstar member. I feel its going a little bit too far. If you dont like to be in the amway/quickstar business stay clear of it, nobody will be able to force you in it. Setting up anti-amway websites, sharing names of the "bugging" amway members, distributing their phone numbers, and destroying their social reputation is harming the person personally, not the amway/quickstar business. We all know by now the amway/quickstar is a scam, majority of its signed members end up losing valuable time and money. How do you feel if some of your mentioned action emotionally push a distressed person off the cliff. Think about it a bit !!!
