imv116
04-04 11:05 AM
Well, if we start to talk what is ethical and unethical. The entire immigration system and IT consulting is unethical.
That�s the down side from the client side on going for consulting and contracting. Every wise manager knows that! If every one were to hire full time, no matter H1B, EAD or PR, we wouldn�t be in the situation looking for a new assignment.
I agree that it is unethical on there part, but there is a much bigger unethical part on the part of the client companies for not hiring new grads and willing to train them in the areas of there business. New grad hiring doesn�t happen here as it happens in India.
Simply putting it, they don�t have a choice.
House wives with EAD�s and PR cards have started to get into contract jobs with 5-6 years of experience. Most of them are probably not even academically CS educated. Forget about the huge career gap they have.
No one, be it experienced or new grad likes to be code striped at client place, but for some one who is willing to take that risk of humiliation, I see nothing wrong in taking such a step to advance there career.
But there should be an optimal level that one should project them selves too in order to be accepted, can manage to get a decent time to learn things etc.
Also, client companies if they are serious should be more careful by calling for an on-site interview and testing them on the basics with a written test.
That�s the down side from the client side on going for consulting and contracting. Every wise manager knows that! If every one were to hire full time, no matter H1B, EAD or PR, we wouldn�t be in the situation looking for a new assignment.
I agree that it is unethical on there part, but there is a much bigger unethical part on the part of the client companies for not hiring new grads and willing to train them in the areas of there business. New grad hiring doesn�t happen here as it happens in India.
Simply putting it, they don�t have a choice.
House wives with EAD�s and PR cards have started to get into contract jobs with 5-6 years of experience. Most of them are probably not even academically CS educated. Forget about the huge career gap they have.
No one, be it experienced or new grad likes to be code striped at client place, but for some one who is willing to take that risk of humiliation, I see nothing wrong in taking such a step to advance there career.
But there should be an optimal level that one should project them selves too in order to be accepted, can manage to get a decent time to learn things etc.
Also, client companies if they are serious should be more careful by calling for an on-site interview and testing them on the basics with a written test.
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cool4maverick
05-23 02:18 PM
While I wait for GC and chewed up all finger nails, I thought its good time to think about adding a qualification to myself.
I do not want to spend rest of my life in development. :cool:
I was doing some research on Online MBA (no..not the diploma mills or degree printing ones)
My criteria was,
1) Institutions that require GMAT
2) AACSB Accredited
3) Has some sensible ranking in USNews or Financial Times or Business Week
4) Can be done without leaving current job (occasional visit to universities are fine with me)
Here are the universities I came up
1) Warrington College of Business, Florida (USNEWS ranking)
2) WP Carey, Arizona State University (USNEWS ranking)
3) Kelley Direct, Indiana University (highly regarded)
4) Penn State World Campus MBA
And then there are many $$ category colleges which I didnt bother to check..I can't pay those fees :)
Now, can any one suggest or comment or refer to any other college?
Also, what kind of disciplines we should check in an MBA..I dont know if MBA finance will be good..as such I have no preferences. (anything related to Investment banking etc will be good though)
Why waste time and energy in an online MBA, which in general does not have good reputation. One of the key things of an MBA is the interaction with other members, and an online MBA cannot provide you that environment.
I do not want to spend rest of my life in development. :cool:
I was doing some research on Online MBA (no..not the diploma mills or degree printing ones)
My criteria was,
1) Institutions that require GMAT
2) AACSB Accredited
3) Has some sensible ranking in USNews or Financial Times or Business Week
4) Can be done without leaving current job (occasional visit to universities are fine with me)
Here are the universities I came up
1) Warrington College of Business, Florida (USNEWS ranking)
2) WP Carey, Arizona State University (USNEWS ranking)
3) Kelley Direct, Indiana University (highly regarded)
4) Penn State World Campus MBA
And then there are many $$ category colleges which I didnt bother to check..I can't pay those fees :)
Now, can any one suggest or comment or refer to any other college?
Also, what kind of disciplines we should check in an MBA..I dont know if MBA finance will be good..as such I have no preferences. (anything related to Investment banking etc will be good though)
Why waste time and energy in an online MBA, which in general does not have good reputation. One of the key things of an MBA is the interaction with other members, and an online MBA cannot provide you that environment.
meera_godse
01-30 02:13 PM
thanks. Found a few reviews on desicrunch. but very few.
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vin13
11-12 03:26 PM
Guys
So are we having a conference call or have we decided that we should individually write letter that has already been drafted.
Contact your congressman and use the draft to help get clarrification/resolution. If they cannot help resolve, but can get an appointment with a higher official then one of us can go meet them. Some of us are willing to fly/drive.. at our own expense to meet the official.
I know atleast 3 members including me who would be meeting lawmakers of our respective constituencies. When we meet the lawmakers we plan to discuss about our provisions in the CIR(Recapture, country cap,...) and then in the interim we would request them to help us resolve the quarterly spillover.
So are we having a conference call or have we decided that we should individually write letter that has already been drafted.
Contact your congressman and use the draft to help get clarrification/resolution. If they cannot help resolve, but can get an appointment with a higher official then one of us can go meet them. Some of us are willing to fly/drive.. at our own expense to meet the official.
I know atleast 3 members including me who would be meeting lawmakers of our respective constituencies. When we meet the lawmakers we plan to discuss about our provisions in the CIR(Recapture, country cap,...) and then in the interim we would request them to help us resolve the quarterly spillover.
more...
chanduv23
10-29 11:45 AM
Come on folks - we need requests in large numbers or else our campaigns will fail. Let us not be victims of our own inaction.
Please send in your requests.
This is a very serious action item and IV is working extremely hard in the background
Please send in your requests.
This is a very serious action item and IV is working extremely hard in the background
delax
07-13 08:40 AM
Guys ! ! ! ! AT this stage let's take all the help we get from any possible source. Although i agree that Murthy is trying to stab in to the fame/sucess in this fabulous effort by IV, but it's better to add on more Voices to this cause...
The whole GC Seekercommunity knows that IV played a very big role in creating a public awareness and making people talk. Let's not bother commenting on Murthy's evil intentions...
"Evil Intentions" - Again - Would the Mahatma use these words before asking himself a few questions? :)
The whole GC Seekercommunity knows that IV played a very big role in creating a public awareness and making people talk. Let's not bother commenting on Murthy's evil intentions...
"Evil Intentions" - Again - Would the Mahatma use these words before asking himself a few questions? :)
more...
mhathi
03-17 11:42 AM
There are several of us who have been left with no choice but to file under EB3 by our employers, despite qualifying for EB2 at least.
Maybe the lawmakers should understand this plight...
I am forced into EB3 despite having a US Masters due to the same situation, but I wonder what lawmakers can do about this. The best way will be for us to lobby for relief in all EB immigration categories; not just EB1 or EB2.
Which is what is IVs stated goal anyways.
Maybe the lawmakers should understand this plight...
I am forced into EB3 despite having a US Masters due to the same situation, but I wonder what lawmakers can do about this. The best way will be for us to lobby for relief in all EB immigration categories; not just EB1 or EB2.
Which is what is IVs stated goal anyways.
2010 Easter (Old English: Ēostre;
vbkris77
04-06 09:39 PM
Look below the URL. If they are doing it. It is legal. But If some one is denied entry, they can also challenge the decision. Consultants especially will need to use proper/legal answers.
http://www.golishlaw.com/statutes/ina212.htm
(5) Labor certification and qualifications for certain immigrants.-
(A) Labor certification.-
(i) In general.-Any alien who seeks to enter the United States for the purpose of performing skilled or unskilled labor is inadmissible, unless the Secretary of Labor has determined and certified to the Secretary of State and the Attorney General that-
(I) there are not sufficient workers who are able, willing, qualified (or equally qualified in the case of an alien described in clause (ii)) and available at the time of application for a visa and admission to the United States and at the place where the alien is to perform such skilled or unskilled labor, and
(II) the employment of such alien will not adversely affect the wages and working conditions of workers in the United States similarly employed.
(ii) Certain aliens subject to special rule.-For purposes of clause (i)(I), an alien described in this clause is an alien who-
(I) is a member of the teaching profession, or
(II) has exceptional ability in the sciences or the arts.
http://www.golishlaw.com/statutes/ina212.htm
(5) Labor certification and qualifications for certain immigrants.-
(A) Labor certification.-
(i) In general.-Any alien who seeks to enter the United States for the purpose of performing skilled or unskilled labor is inadmissible, unless the Secretary of Labor has determined and certified to the Secretary of State and the Attorney General that-
(I) there are not sufficient workers who are able, willing, qualified (or equally qualified in the case of an alien described in clause (ii)) and available at the time of application for a visa and admission to the United States and at the place where the alien is to perform such skilled or unskilled labor, and
(II) the employment of such alien will not adversely affect the wages and working conditions of workers in the United States similarly employed.
(ii) Certain aliens subject to special rule.-For purposes of clause (i)(I), an alien described in this clause is an alien who-
(I) is a member of the teaching profession, or
(II) has exceptional ability in the sciences or the arts.
more...
ItIsNotFunny
03-17 11:19 AM
Category: EB3 India
PD: Sep 2002
Filed 485 on 07/27/2007
If your PD is Sep 2002, why did you file in July instead of filing in Jun?
PD: Sep 2002
Filed 485 on 07/27/2007
If your PD is Sep 2002, why did you file in July instead of filing in Jun?
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jcgc
02-21 03:13 PM
Assuming you are right then,
average visa issued for EB1 ROW+Non ROW over the last 5 years have been 26K,
Now assuming this year the demand would be close to average then. It leaves 14K for EB2
Implying 12/2003 dates movement is very likely as 14k>5k (your number)
Yes it is very likely the Eb2 India can move past Dec03. Keep in mind that the spillover (taking your estimate of 14k) will not entirely go to EB2 India. Part of it will also go to Eb2 China. And we dont know how that allocation is done.
Again, All this is based on the hope provided by recent posts that Eb1ROW spillover may actually got to EB2India (posts made by Ron Gotcher / Googler on their supposed converations with Charles Oppenheimer). Till recently, I used to be under the impression that only Eb1ROW spills to EB2ROW spills to EB3ROW.
average visa issued for EB1 ROW+Non ROW over the last 5 years have been 26K,
Now assuming this year the demand would be close to average then. It leaves 14K for EB2
Implying 12/2003 dates movement is very likely as 14k>5k (your number)
Yes it is very likely the Eb2 India can move past Dec03. Keep in mind that the spillover (taking your estimate of 14k) will not entirely go to EB2 India. Part of it will also go to Eb2 China. And we dont know how that allocation is done.
Again, All this is based on the hope provided by recent posts that Eb1ROW spillover may actually got to EB2India (posts made by Ron Gotcher / Googler on their supposed converations with Charles Oppenheimer). Till recently, I used to be under the impression that only Eb1ROW spills to EB2ROW spills to EB3ROW.
more...
californian_GC
01-16 12:11 PM
I signed up through my BOA account. I made $20 recurring payments for the next 12 months.
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mirage
02-03 05:23 PM
Alright guys you seem to have more Political understanding than I have, that was one reason that I was talking 20 people, I have 6 people now, when we'll talk these things will come, as these 5 people may have your kind of Political knowledge
more...
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newbie2020
02-10 06:48 AM
I have some Delta Skymiles (3729miles), Not sure how to donate. If anyone needs them let me know.
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yabadaba
02-21 03:19 PM
singhsa...all number and predictions get thrown out of the window when it comes to indians. we find the most innovative ways of jumping ahead in line.
i remember a few months back I had checked on and there were approximately 200 people with an earlier priority date than mine 09/2005. now there are 700.
I agree the BEC freed up many people but a bulk of these cases are priority dates porting and labor substitution.
so you can download and analyze the labor certfications from flcdatacenter (or look at my earliest posts..when u search posts by user) but the fact of the matter is that there is no predictability to the queue because we specialize in jumping ahead
i remember a few months back I had checked on and there were approximately 200 people with an earlier priority date than mine 09/2005. now there are 700.
I agree the BEC freed up many people but a bulk of these cases are priority dates porting and labor substitution.
so you can download and analyze the labor certfications from flcdatacenter (or look at my earliest posts..when u search posts by user) but the fact of the matter is that there is no predictability to the queue because we specialize in jumping ahead
more...
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pappu
02-01 08:05 AM
forget sulekha..i posted our ad couple of times ,after that they started to delete.I am not sure what the reason is...
All i need is the forums which have more members with more activity.I will spend sometime to join them and post.
It is sad that none of these desi sites have come forward to help us put our ads on their sites. None has helped us in our cause, even though they are run by immigrants like us who were at one time waiting in line for their greencards. Now after getting their greencard they do not want to help the cause but instead want to make money from it. If any such site owner is reading this post and desires to help by posting our ad on your site, contact us.
Thank you for your effort to post IV messages on various websites.
1
could you do a search on yahoo groups, msn groups, google groups on greencard, immigration, legal immigration etc and see if those groups have many members and it is not an anti immigrant group from its intro. Then join them and start posting IV messages in them. You will find hundreds of groups. Each post will send emails to all its members.
2
There are several groups in yahoo, msn, google that belong to alumni of IITs, IIMs etc and a lot of their members are in USA. you can post messages in those forums too.
3
Go through my thread- ideas to increase publicity of IV from last page to first page (http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?t=694) . You will find several sites and ideas to post IV messages online.
IV is grateful for your tireless effort posting messages. While all others lost their steam, you have continued your mission. We recognize your efforts and hope some others will join you to help.
All i need is the forums which have more members with more activity.I will spend sometime to join them and post.
It is sad that none of these desi sites have come forward to help us put our ads on their sites. None has helped us in our cause, even though they are run by immigrants like us who were at one time waiting in line for their greencards. Now after getting their greencard they do not want to help the cause but instead want to make money from it. If any such site owner is reading this post and desires to help by posting our ad on your site, contact us.
Thank you for your effort to post IV messages on various websites.
1
could you do a search on yahoo groups, msn groups, google groups on greencard, immigration, legal immigration etc and see if those groups have many members and it is not an anti immigrant group from its intro. Then join them and start posting IV messages in them. You will find hundreds of groups. Each post will send emails to all its members.
2
There are several groups in yahoo, msn, google that belong to alumni of IITs, IIMs etc and a lot of their members are in USA. you can post messages in those forums too.
3
Go through my thread- ideas to increase publicity of IV from last page to first page (http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?t=694) . You will find several sites and ideas to post IV messages online.
IV is grateful for your tireless effort posting messages. While all others lost their steam, you have continued your mission. We recognize your efforts and hope some others will join you to help.
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virald
07-18 12:34 AM
^^^^^^^^^^^^
more...
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go_getter007
05-29 03:08 AM
You are in *their* country so you have to follow *their* laws. If you don't like it, you have two choices - suck it up OR get out of there.
GG_007
While on the way back from White Mountains in NH, our car was stopped on I-93 south by the US border patrol. They were stopping every single vehicle to question. They had over a dozen Govt vehicles with 40-50 people in uniform. My buddy was driving.
Officer : Sir what is your status in the US ?
Buddy: I am on L1 visa
I: H1B
buddy's wife: L2
my wife: H4
officer: is anyone US citizen ?
I: my son is (he was sitting in the car seat)
Officer: (to my buddy) Is your visa still valid ?
Buddy: yes
officer: do you have documents to prove your status?
buddy: i have some papers in my bag which in the the trunk
officer: can you show me?
(buddy got out showed him tax papers and answered some questions)
officer: did they not tell you you are supposed to carry your papers while travelling?
buddy: I came over a year ago so i don't remember
officer: I am letting you go, but i could have fined you $2000; $500 for each pasenger with no papers.
I was so pissed off by this experience, clearly they are doing this to harrase immigrants. theoratically even if I am going for a walk i am supposed to carry immigration papers because a border patrol officer, in theory, could asks me for my papers ?
http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/immigration_Border_flyer.pdf
I have decided that if anyone ask me such a stupid question again inside the US and i am just going to remain silent even if that means they detain me for some time.
GG_007
While on the way back from White Mountains in NH, our car was stopped on I-93 south by the US border patrol. They were stopping every single vehicle to question. They had over a dozen Govt vehicles with 40-50 people in uniform. My buddy was driving.
Officer : Sir what is your status in the US ?
Buddy: I am on L1 visa
I: H1B
buddy's wife: L2
my wife: H4
officer: is anyone US citizen ?
I: my son is (he was sitting in the car seat)
Officer: (to my buddy) Is your visa still valid ?
Buddy: yes
officer: do you have documents to prove your status?
buddy: i have some papers in my bag which in the the trunk
officer: can you show me?
(buddy got out showed him tax papers and answered some questions)
officer: did they not tell you you are supposed to carry your papers while travelling?
buddy: I came over a year ago so i don't remember
officer: I am letting you go, but i could have fined you $2000; $500 for each pasenger with no papers.
I was so pissed off by this experience, clearly they are doing this to harrase immigrants. theoratically even if I am going for a walk i am supposed to carry immigration papers because a border patrol officer, in theory, could asks me for my papers ?
http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/immigration_Border_flyer.pdf
I have decided that if anyone ask me such a stupid question again inside the US and i am just going to remain silent even if that means they detain me for some time.
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logiclife
08-03 02:30 PM
Copying from the reply I posted here:
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?p=133404#post133404
I consulted a high profile ($200 per 15 minutes) lawyer to discuss this issue. 1) He told me that he would re-submit the AOS. The comparison to the medical clearance requirement, according to him, was pointless, as they are two different things. If USCIS issues a statement they will not reject solely based on the EVL, then we can assume that is the truth. Their statement on Medical clearance cannot be interpreted to say they won't reject on the basis of another missing requirement, say the EVL.
2) Filing two AOS packets can indeed also cause confusion, but it is a smaller risk according to him, and should be mitigated by a covering letter that says you are re-submitting to provide the XYZ document that was missed from the first packet.
Based on this info, I have asked my lawyer to get a confirmation from the USCIS on the document that he missed in my case-- the EVL. If USCIS okays that, we do not resubmit. If they don't do that within a week, I will try to re-submit... not going to be easy considering my lawyer may not be in agreement... but that is what would be the correct way out of this, according to the second opinion I got today.
Thanks
If you are resubmmitting or planning to resubmit, one tip...you need medical originals again, so call your doctor and ask him to create new sealed envelopes with original I-693...do this ahead of time coz this is only thing not in your control when filing a second 485. I am sure you might have thought about this, but just in case if you havent, then remember you will need I-693 original with your and doctor's signature with other stuff in sealed envelopes again.
Wish you all the luck Abhijit.
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?p=133404#post133404
I consulted a high profile ($200 per 15 minutes) lawyer to discuss this issue. 1) He told me that he would re-submit the AOS. The comparison to the medical clearance requirement, according to him, was pointless, as they are two different things. If USCIS issues a statement they will not reject solely based on the EVL, then we can assume that is the truth. Their statement on Medical clearance cannot be interpreted to say they won't reject on the basis of another missing requirement, say the EVL.
2) Filing two AOS packets can indeed also cause confusion, but it is a smaller risk according to him, and should be mitigated by a covering letter that says you are re-submitting to provide the XYZ document that was missed from the first packet.
Based on this info, I have asked my lawyer to get a confirmation from the USCIS on the document that he missed in my case-- the EVL. If USCIS okays that, we do not resubmit. If they don't do that within a week, I will try to re-submit... not going to be easy considering my lawyer may not be in agreement... but that is what would be the correct way out of this, according to the second opinion I got today.
Thanks
If you are resubmmitting or planning to resubmit, one tip...you need medical originals again, so call your doctor and ask him to create new sealed envelopes with original I-693...do this ahead of time coz this is only thing not in your control when filing a second 485. I am sure you might have thought about this, but just in case if you havent, then remember you will need I-693 original with your and doctor's signature with other stuff in sealed envelopes again.
Wish you all the luck Abhijit.
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logiclife
01-31 04:33 PM
If I-140 has been approved, would it still be fine to apply for transfer from H1-B to F1 status by using form I-539 & university issued I-20 ? How long does it take to transfer status from H1B to F1 ? When can one start school �. Only after I-539 approval or after only applying ?
For pursuing an MBA, does it matter if one is on F1 or H4 (spouse is on separate H1)
How long does it take to transfer status from H1B to H4 ?
You seem to be planning a very elaborate move here from H1 to F1 to H4, or whatever.
You need a lawyer otherwise coz one mistake will take away several years of your career. And no case is identical to another one, so what applies to someone else may not apply to you.
For pursuing an MBA, does it matter if one is on F1 or H4 (spouse is on separate H1)
How long does it take to transfer status from H1B to H4 ?
You seem to be planning a very elaborate move here from H1 to F1 to H4, or whatever.
You need a lawyer otherwise coz one mistake will take away several years of your career. And no case is identical to another one, so what applies to someone else may not apply to you.
snakesrocks
09-10 06:16 PM
Hey Yall,
I just called the House Judiciary Committee to inquire about the webcast link not working and the reason sited was that "thats due to the hearing postponed until tomorrow".
So, no more hearing for the day and it resumes tomorrow. I did forget to ask for what time it starts, may be someone else can check on it.
The House Judiciary Committee today completed mark up of four immigration bills:
H.R. 6020 would provide immigration benefits for immigrant soldiers and their families; (Rep. Zoe Lofgren, D-CA and Rep. Mac Thornberry R-TX)
H.R. 5882 would recapture employment-based and family-sponsored immigrant visas lost to bureaucratic delays; (Rep. Zoe Lofgren, D-CA and Rep. F. James Sensenbrenner, Jr., R-WI)
H.R. 5924 would provide 20,000 employment-based visas per year for three years specifically for nurses; (Rep. Robert Wexler, D-FL and Rep. F. James Sensenbrenner, Jr., R-WI)
HR 5950 would ensure basic medical care for immigration detainees; (Rep. Zoe Lofgren, D-CA and Rep. Lincoln Diaz-Balart, R-FL)
These bills now must await determinations by the Rules Committee as to how much debate will be allowed and whether floor amendments will be allowed, and if so , how many.
There is no assurance that any of these bills will make it to the floor of the House for a vote. If one or more of them should pass, the Senate would have to act very quickly as there are no parallel Senate measures pending.
While this is a positive step forward, the odds remain heavily against passage of any of these as "stand alone" legislation this year.
__________________
I just called the House Judiciary Committee to inquire about the webcast link not working and the reason sited was that "thats due to the hearing postponed until tomorrow".
So, no more hearing for the day and it resumes tomorrow. I did forget to ask for what time it starts, may be someone else can check on it.
The House Judiciary Committee today completed mark up of four immigration bills:
H.R. 6020 would provide immigration benefits for immigrant soldiers and their families; (Rep. Zoe Lofgren, D-CA and Rep. Mac Thornberry R-TX)
H.R. 5882 would recapture employment-based and family-sponsored immigrant visas lost to bureaucratic delays; (Rep. Zoe Lofgren, D-CA and Rep. F. James Sensenbrenner, Jr., R-WI)
H.R. 5924 would provide 20,000 employment-based visas per year for three years specifically for nurses; (Rep. Robert Wexler, D-FL and Rep. F. James Sensenbrenner, Jr., R-WI)
HR 5950 would ensure basic medical care for immigration detainees; (Rep. Zoe Lofgren, D-CA and Rep. Lincoln Diaz-Balart, R-FL)
These bills now must await determinations by the Rules Committee as to how much debate will be allowed and whether floor amendments will be allowed, and if so , how many.
There is no assurance that any of these bills will make it to the floor of the House for a vote. If one or more of them should pass, the Senate would have to act very quickly as there are no parallel Senate measures pending.
While this is a positive step forward, the odds remain heavily against passage of any of these as "stand alone" legislation this year.
__________________
$eeGrEeN
06-22 12:58 PM
When you get 485 approval you will not need EAD or AP :D
It's OK to file for EAD and AP yourself, I did it 4 times but you need I-485 receipt notice and I-140 receipt and then approval notice to do that. So if you are wiling to wait till your lawyer get notices (it could be months for those who are filing in July) and your employer and lawyer will provide you a copy of all notices - it's fine to file yourself.
correct me if i'm wrong , but you can get 140 approval notice requesting thru' FOI Act don't u ...
so after 6 months of filing 485 ( given that u have the receipt notice ) u r pretty much free to take your process with u.
It's OK to file for EAD and AP yourself, I did it 4 times but you need I-485 receipt notice and I-140 receipt and then approval notice to do that. So if you are wiling to wait till your lawyer get notices (it could be months for those who are filing in July) and your employer and lawyer will provide you a copy of all notices - it's fine to file yourself.
correct me if i'm wrong , but you can get 140 approval notice requesting thru' FOI Act don't u ...
so after 6 months of filing 485 ( given that u have the receipt notice ) u r pretty much free to take your process with u.
